I realize the friendly leadership folks of AFSCME 66 don’t like me much (and they are in a large, not-at-all exclusive club, that at times includes family and household pets), but allow me to take a moment to pay AFSCME negotating team member and city utility operator Nick Economos a compliment. He did something not many of us would have the guts to do: he was one of the panelists this morning at a Chamber of Commerce Forum focused on overtime and city spending, and did an admirable job of defending the union, the city’s work rules and explaining why our dilapidated infrastructure leads to so much spending on overtime each year.
Sitting with Economos were city councilors and overtime/city contract critics Todd Fedora and Jim Stauber, who were dressed in suits/ties. While Economos said he was just coming from a work assignment fixing a water main and was going to back after the forum was over, so he was appropriately dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. It was fun little dichotomy of politicians suiting up against the working man sans lunch pail.
Ultimately, though, I feel AFSCME did a disservice to Economos. Stauber and Fedora are used to the spotlight and talking in public; Economos was clearly not. When asked for detail and explanation, the councilors had their talking points at the ready; Economos clearly did not. He brought his work experience with him — but when it came time to explain in more detail why AFSCME has asked for the provisions it has, some of his responses led to more questions than answers. I don’t think he was trying to be evasive; I chalk it up to what would happen if your everyday person got put in front of a hostile audience — you probably wouldn’t be too concise, either.
The audience at the Chamber was already mostly disposed to be against AFSCME — and while Economos’ courage to get up in front of them was admirable, the union would have been better served to have someone up there who was better at talking in public.
Actually, that person was sitting in the audience — Jim Dreier, another AFSCME negotiator who was also one of the lead contacts with the press during the contract negotiotions. Dreier had an exchange with Fedora that I thought was the most interesting moment of the Forum. By that point Fedora had harped on standby pay and city sick time in the contract, among other things, and Dreier wanted to know why Fedora would approve other city contracts that have similar language, but would reject AFSCME’s.
Dreier: Do you understand what the reason is for standby in every department?
Fedora: Sure do.
Dreier: Do you realize that these people that are on standby are expected under Minnesota pipeline regulatory board as requirements to be available to respond to gas and emergencies. That’s their primary reason that they’re on standby.
Fedora: Mm-hm.
Dreier: So what is your solution then?
Fedora: And do you realize that in the city of Minneapolis they pay $30 per day for standby pay and when that contract language [note: I assume he meant the Duluth AFSCME contract] was run by the H.R. person in the city of Minneapolis they could not believe that language was in the contract. Do you realize that?
Dreier: I’m not talking about Minneapolis, I’m talking about [inaudible].
Fedora: I know fully what the concept of that standby pay is, and it’s my opinion that it’s egregious.
Economos jumped in and said that according to the League of Minnesota cities Duluth is average when it comes to standby pay in the state. "We’re neither high nor low," he said. I did a very, very quick search through the site and didn’t see that data — if an AFSCME member is reading this and wants to link to the research in the comments section, please feel free.
Then firefighter Pete Johnson asked a question of Fedora, wondering what would be reasonable for standby pay.
"Some movement in a different direction," Fedora said. "I’m not saying $30 a day. Frankly, councilor Stauber and I aren’t on the negotiating team. So these questions about negotiating a contract, you can ask them, but we have no control over it. But I believe there needs to be some compromise from our partners."
And then the discussion quickly veered into the details and mundane. There was one other interesting moment during the Forum, when commercial realtor Dave Holappa brought up Mayor Don Ness, saying "at one point in time I believe our mayor came to us with rate increases and pitched it saying for every dollar of increase that I propose I will save $2. I think we as business folks and at the chamber of commerce need to call him on that and say can you show us that, and if not when will you show us that."
"Call him out," Stauber replied.
"Yeah," Holappa said. "I think we should" as Andy Peterson was nodding his head in agreement.
I wrote the mayor about the comment and asked if he wanted to comment. His response:
"In my first year we faced a $6 million dollar general fund deficit and I made the statement that we would make $2 of cuts and cost savings for every dollar of new revenue. In the end, it was at least to 8 to 1. I assume that is the statement that Dave mentioned and we far exceeded that goal."
I followed up and asked for detail as to how the city was able to reach the 8 to 1 ratio. His response:
"Keep in mind, this is only looking at 2008 when I made that statement early in the year.
We faced a $6.5 million deficit that year.
The new sources of revenue were:
$276k street lighting
$225k parking revenue budgeted (due to a delay in implementation, I think our actual collections were around $100k) $30-40k Fee/fine increases$541k appx revenue increases to address that budget deficit. It was about a 12 to 1 ratio."
Far too easy to hide behind the “we don’t negotiate the contracts” (they only approve them) and blame the city workers for years of neglect and lack of staff to maintain over the past generations. Not saying Fedora and Stauber carry all the blame, but past administrations have been too concerned with bricks and bridges and fish tanks and the like to pay attention to the infrastructure – and then Councilor Ness is not exempt from that blame…
Actually I thought the forvm (not a mispelling) was a good event. Anytime we can have civil discourse regarding these kinds of issues we are well served. The challenges facing the taxpayers, union members and our city are daunting. I am hoping that this is the beginning of many such discussions. We’ll all need to pull together to solve these problems.
Andy is right. The more we know, the better decisions can be made. The only way we will know more is if we discuss it.
First, I would like to thank Andy Peterson, and David Ross,for the welcome, to the members of the A.F.S.C.M.E negotiating team to the chamber of commerice form today.If the union, administration,chamber of commerece, and city council, can continue to discuss these issues in a civil way, mabe problems can be solved.Respect goe’s a long way.Today, I would like to thank the chamber of commerece for giving us theirs.
Is there a video of the event that can be seen on the web? People need to see what’s going on and the Chamber of Commerce has the resources and funds to make video. Did they and if so, where can we see it?
Andy Peterson, you need to realize that the only “pulling” that is going to happen is the pulling out of Duluth.
Declining property values,
Declining employment,
Declining population,
against:
Increasing liabilities,
Overwhelming union influence,
Incompetent leadership (including the Chamber O.C.)
And writers more interested in what people are wearing.
Frigging brilliant!
I’ll be selling my property in Duluth soon. Very soon.
Stahl what’s with you and all your stories on the http://www.dflduluthexposed.com site? You need to stop feeding the wolves!
*I* think Brandon should stop letting obvious trolls like “Benjamin D” use the Buzz blog to promote these sleazy mudslinging blogs that are a disgrace to our community.
Spiteful, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I’m sure you’ll find things to complain about at your next residence. Let me guess, Souix Falls? Boringsville.
Then *I* think that a certain person should stop continually mentioning and therefor promoting the DCB. Maybe this person really likes the DCB?
Dave that is a brilliant retort! I wonder if that is Chamber Dave? Can’t take the heat? That must be the same thing you said to all the people that moved to Hermantown and Esko in the last 20 years. By the way, I think Souix Falls is considering a slander suit.
So lets cut through this new Chamber AFSCME love fest. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The problem is the elected and when did the Chamber OC have any real influence on a City election?
To resolve the nearly overwhelming city financial situation will mean City bankruptcy. Anything less than that is not a resolution. Sorry I don’t feel the need to share in that economic disaster-a-looming.
Overwhelming union influence = Overwhelming financial burden. Respect that!
When we should have been fixing our streets throughout the city, we rebricked the downtown. Our water and sewer mains are 100 years old and are living on borrowed times, so we build an aquarium. We give money to any developer wanting to build a hotel in canal park who then charges 200 a night and gets rich. Then, when our infrastructure is crumbling around us, we blame the city employees who have been cut over and over again, and have to work huge amounts of overtime to keep up. We had 1200 employees only a few years ago. Now its more like 800. Yet, the infrastructure is older, the work load is greater, and we blame the employees.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that when you have 800 people doing the work of 1200 you are going to incur some overtime costs.
And I thought the likes of Andy Peterson, Stuaber and Fedora were educated. Maybe they should lose the suits for a day and jump in a hole and get a close up view of our water and sewer system. Maybe they should talk to some employees around the city that keep our water flowing to our homes and the sh** running away from them.
Stuaber and Fedora are just trying to negotiate a contract which as Fedora stated is not his business. Have not seen any positive come out of either councilor. Let’s try and make Duluth grow and not tear it apart with every issue. Not to leave Brandon out as he is always stirring the half barrel.
Claire,
I go to that site and there are a bunch of news stories. What’s wrong with the DNT, MPR, Forbes and more? The answer is you don’t like the truth.
Your mentor Trotsky did start Parvda, but it was far from the truth unlike the media we have in the US today.
Just because you disagree with others doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have a voice. I read, in your own words, your sleazy mudslinging which many in the community consider disgraceful.
Personally the amount you blather on here diminishes the quality of this blog. I look forward to the day you debate with facts but I’m not going to hold my breath.
I get a kick out of The Donald’s “new sources of revenue”. They always revolve around the 1 source the DFL continually exploits…The taxpayer.
Pirate: you just proved my point with your mudslinging. Typical of those who are unable to debate the issues, but have to hurl moronic insults.
Hey spiteful, the A>F>S>M>E> pirates are flying the pirate flag at half mast for you!!! whine,whine,whine
Stahl wanted a source from Economos regarding his comment that Duluth’s standby rate was “in the middle.” Maybe he read that on Buzz Duluth. From a previous entry by Stahl:
“That the standby provisions may not be all that abnormal when it comes to unionized city workers.
To get an idea of what the common practice is for overtime/standby use for city workers, I called Laura Kushner, human resources director with the League of Minnesota Cities. She said some of the standby pay and provisions are state and federally mandated, such as any over time worked has to be time and a half. She looked through Article 18.1 in the city contract that outlines the standby provisions in contract language gobblygook. Her response when she looked at the contract?
“Duluth’s standby pay (2 hours at time and one-half) is not the highest rate out there. It varies from some cities that pay nothing for standby to others that pay hour for hour at straight time. Many are in the middle, like Duluth, paying from 1-3 hours of pay at time and one-half for each shift on standby.”
So, we’re in the middle. But as to why public works employees were getting more OT when compared to other cities, she didn’t know.”
I can’t blame Stahl for questioning Economos’ source.
Good point, @stahl! I had completely forgotten about that. Yes, indeed, Ms. Kuchner did tell me that.
I wasn’t questioning his source, btw. I was just saying: I didn;’t have a whole lot of time to look it up. If someone could have directed me to that source, please do. And you did. Thanks!